***SPOILERS THROUGHOUT***
This box is full of so much, just in the case file! Let's dig into the first clue:
LFoA Letter: George Madson warns us to about suspicious activity in our correspondence. He calls himself the "Vice-President and Lead Encouragement Officer". So his title in this episode/box is slightly changed since box 1. Do the changes hold significance? I keep track just in case.
JWJ "Friend" Letter: JWJ discusses the clues in the box and the case file he sent you of Lloyd McGowan, who he believes is innocent of the murder of a fellow patient, Lillian Grayson. He thinks of himself of as Janus, a God who controls time, has two faces, and can see in the past and future. And he can create passages through doorways and worlds.
JWJ "Friend" Letter: JWJ discusses the clues in the box and the case file he sent you of Lloyd McGowan, who he believes is innocent of the murder of a fellow patient, Lillian Grayson. He thinks of himself of as Janus, a God who controls time, has two faces, and can see in the past and future. And he can create passages through doorways and worlds.
Devouring Dragon Etching: An etching by Hendrick Goltzius. The etching we are given is censored, removing the violent portions. A quick backstory of Cadmus and the dragon can be found here- Etching History/Mythology
Cadmus History/Mythology
Cadmus History/Mythology
Dragon Tooth: In mythology, Cadmus sowed the dragon's tooth in the ground and made an army of men called Spartoi("sown"). What that means for the overall story, I'm not sure as of right now.
Case File: Right side-Admission/Incidents
Left Side-White Pages
Extra Thoughts: Someone had a relationship with Lillian Grayson. The medication she was taken gave a false positive of pregnancy, so a physician or nurse would have found out she was "pregnant" first. And used this to set up McGowan, with tools from the custodians' equipment room. McGowan was locked away in his room and drugged during the murder, so unless one of the orderlies watching him hourly, let him out, he was innocent.
Case File: Right side-Admission/Incidents
Left Side-White Pages
Extra Thoughts: Someone had a relationship with Lillian Grayson. The medication she was taken gave a false positive of pregnancy, so a physician or nurse would have found out she was "pregnant" first. And used this to set up McGowan, with tools from the custodians' equipment room. McGowan was locked away in his room and drugged during the murder, so unless one of the orderlies watching him hourly, let him out, he was innocent.
Father's name was Patrick McGowan, if that helps. And we also get the mothers Maiden name - Phelan.
ReplyDeleteMy two cents ...
ReplyDeleteYou imply that someone had a relationship with Grayson -- sorry, but I disagree. The blood in the vagina, the bruising, the presence of semen, and inflammation of the vuvla is more indicative of rape.
The progestin and estridol in her blood could mean birth control and not necessarily pregnancy. This was in 1967 and no actual levels of these hormones are listed in the ME report, so a false-positive pregnancy is a stretch. No hCG or hPL were listed, which is what doctors actually check for with a suspected pregnancy.
Two different types of weapons were used in the murder of Grayson: a blunt weapon (2 strikes: trauma to the occipital region of the skull and left orbital) and a knife (1 wound to the neck [where? did it hit an artery? hyoidal? stabbing or slashing?], 2 wounds to the right hand [defensive?], and 13 to the abdominal region [what organs/vascular bodies were pierced? how deep? how wide of a blade?]); this makes me think it was two different people who assaulted her at the same time. The coroners report said the COD was blunt force trauma, but stabbing someone 16 times had to be pre- or perimortem otherwise she would have bled to death. Her rape had to have taken place within five days of her murder for the semenial fluid to have still been present; that's about as long as semen lives in the vagina/uterus before the natural acidity breaks it down or expels it. Outside of the body, semen lives for about 20 minutes.
Since the crime took place in 1967, how old is JWJ? He would now have to be at least 68 to have known about the murder at the time it happened. He thinks McGowan is innocent of the murder of Grayson, but unless JWJ was institutionalized in the L. F. O'Brien Asylum (LFOA) at age 18 in the late 60s, he's really just speculating based on rumors and whatever opinions he formed from stolen medical files.
As far as my false positive theory, the medications she was taking could cause that. And they could also cause self-harm. Both her and McGowan were taking a medication with a side affect that could cause self-harm and she was taking meds that McGowan as a man, would not be taking, so not all of her injuries in the ME report would be from her attack/murder.
DeleteProgestin(its wrongly charted as Progeatin) and Estradiol are noted in her ME report. Those medications when mixed with any drugs she may have been on for her Integrate Amnesia or other mental disorders(because remember the Obrien Aslyum and the Darlington facility aren't exactly upstanding health facilities, so they may keep things out of her charts to save face) would cause false positive pregnancies, mess with her menstrual cycle(the charted "effusion of blood"), etc.
DeleteYou basically told me I was wrong. You read my thoughts on it just to let me know you have been pregnant before and a nurse, so how could I possibly not listen to your grand thoughts on it? You are the only expert. You were wrong. Grayson WAS ON MEDICATIONS. It was noted. You decided to go the I am a woman and I was pregnant, so I know everything. And we are all guessing. So you aren't right. I'm not right. None of us can possibly say for certain who is right. I just don't want negativity on my posts. You are obviously an angry person who has to be right. Go be right somewhere else Miss Statler.
DeleteEstrogen and progestin levels are elevated in early pregnancy. I believe she was pregnant. Plenty of time to discard the fetus because of the ridiculously long autopsy. Also she was stabbed in the abdomen numerous times.
DeleteIt weird to argue on someone else's blog... that being said - can't it be both? She may well have taken birth control and been pregnant and been raped. The pill is only effective if taken everyday and at the same time everyday. Theoretically they could have not given her a dose and she had become pregnant. Whomever could then have decided to kill her and raped her at the same time. None of these things are unheard of.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I feel like whatever led up to her murder was all apart of covering up some link between Grayson and whomever, if anyone, she was in a relationship with. Or the reason she was drugged and then killed was because of something she knew about a staff member. She was called "a bright star." So she could have, at one time, been a staff member, then her amnesia caused her to have issues and LFoA took it upon themselves to institutionalize her and monitor her, to keep her quiet about something that we don't yet understand or have proper information for. But I agree that it could be one or both, she was either on the pill and/or she was pregnant. I'm no expert on the female body or reproduction. So I ask my wife about most of this. I don't claim to be an expert on anything. But I love bouncing ideas off people.
DeleteIs it possible that this wasn't the first time she was sexually active whether it be rape or otherwise and that maybe she was pregnant? Could it be that she was stabbed in the abdominal region so much because the person who killed her wanted to make sure that the baby was destroyed? Just a thought...
DeleteI wonder also if she had any sort of amnesia at all. If she was a staff member and found out something she shouldn't have or maybe had an affair with a married staff member that went on too long, in those days she could have been forcefully admitted to shut her up. Like in AHS Asylum.
ReplyDeleteAnd dude, I have a female reproductive system and don't pretend to know all about them either 😂😂
Right? She could have been charted as having amnesia or a brain disorder so that anything she said when out of her drug fog, could be discounted as "crazy talk"! So, I am open to any theory at this point. Really could be anything at this point.
DeleteI do believe she was diagnosed with Retrograde Amnesia. I think I caught that in the MP3...maybe?
DeleteI haven't been able to find ANYTHING on her. Also I wonder if Lillian is even her real name....
ReplyDeleteI'm open to all ideas, I haven't even gotten my third box yet, so I am hoping to get some more information next week!
Oh yeah. Im waiting for box 7. So I do know a few things. But I approach each box with fresh eyes and only say what I know about the current box and any previous boxes. I try to play it like new so that I don't give too much away ahead of time.
DeleteAwesome job on that. I never would have known you weren't at the same spot in the episode as I am! I will look for your third box blog after I go through my next one!
ReplyDeletehey Charles, your theories all seem to match up to mine; however, i do believe lilian was raped......gives motive for the murder cover up. i have wondered also if McGowan didn't also see who did commit the murder, look at injury report, he appears to have been beaten and bound. Why??? Another question is the interview..... who was the questioner if not a Doctor or Richter to be exact. It sounded as if McGowan was hypnotized, he then begins to bring us into the mystery of Paul Redfern..... weird. whats the connection? aslo with Redfern i found inconsistancies was Paul Redfern born on Feb 13th or 24th of 1902, i have found both dates as his DOB. Back to interview.... McGowan mentioned a girls name, actually two. Rachel and Beatrice. Lillian is spelled wrong in the file, they have it Lilian, would that be a intentional misspelling, so i have yet to research Rachel Grayson or Beatrice. i will report any findings.we have spoken before in fb, this is Dawnelle Bryant, again i have way more info, like in box 1. and i am still researching. love these blogs BTW. Another inconsistency was Paul Redfern's fathers name, its listed as Frederick S. Redfern and Frederick C. Redfern..... so confused... back to McGowan(sorry for flip flopping) why did his mother have him committed, the exact reason? i don't buy the garbage she was afraid of him. she would have had him committed a long time ago. could he have some link to Redfern???? something is definitely missing. also he mentioned he wasn't a murderer like his father, what does that mean??? also the absence of his father when committed is interesting. it is stated his father was an alcoholic and violent. why wasn't he committed???? lol.......... soooooo many twists and turns, i get dizzy. hahah, big thing is......who, or what is JWJ involvement in all of this, he leads us to so many places, the 1811 highway murders, the Baltimore slides, two animals, a swan and now a dragon, Paul Redferns disappearance. Grayson murder, and so much more, how does he know so much??? especially being on the inside...... or is he really??? food for thought, items in this box were not listed in inspection, the blue light and the file. what if our killer isn't locked up but is an employee, some things do not add up with him......js. would love to hear your thoughts on the matters aforementioned, or anyone else who has ideas or think the same thing or can add to the thoughts..... definitely up for discussion.
ReplyDeleteIf you aren't passed box 2, I can't confirm or deny anything you say except that you are, IF I'M EVEN RIGHT, on the right track with Lillian's murder...the rest unfolds over time. So, I don't want to spoil any upcoming boxes or theories. But I love where your heads at. A really well thought-out theory and evidence to back it up.
DeleteDear charles.....
DeleteNope only on box 2. I will be haking some before bed about lilian..... now you have me dying for box 3. Lol. Love this. Love the hunt, talk to you again soon. D
Interestingly, a lot of your questions show up in my notes as well. Also the name Rachel is the first inspector, Box 1 (LN: Scalione). Not sure if that is significant or not here. I need to dig some on the FB pg and more into the LFoA archives now that I have more info......
DeleteI just received my box 2 and my head is spinning! Does anyone else think its weird that McGowans mothers name was Aoife and there is an employee with the same name at LFOA? Also I think its telling that the L.F Obrien Asylum and Listening Friends of America have the same abbreviation LFOA...I dont trust this George Madson. He came to Darlington and started up his flagship facility at the same time McGowen was transferred there in some sort of arrangement with Dr. Richter. JWJ speaks of things not being what they seem...Could Madson be a wolf in sheeps clothing? I think this facility is very mysterious and perhaps not exactly what it claims to be....hmmmmm
Deletei decided to think outside the box today...... i began a research on Darlington M.D. has anyone else thought to do so and what were your findings, i found it rather interesting. here's a population census. https://suburbanstats.org/population/maryland/how-many-people-live-in-darlington
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
Deletei can not get the link to post, just copy and paste. sorry
ReplyDeleteI got it. I like looking at real world info, because sometimes it can help you get a timeline or a map going for yourself.
ReplyDeleteRight. But the problem is..... the population only 400 and some people and that's for 2017. I can not find a date for when Darlington was founded. So here lies the mystery. Are these guys actually in darlington???? There is no asylum or prison etc there. Has there ever been??? Where are they and what's up with L.F.o.A. there is more there with this group than meets the eye. Especially with..... listening friends of America. Or listening friends O'Brien asylum??? Nothing on the later either. Have you found anything at all on this particular asylum????
ReplyDeleteCorrection..... L.F. O'Brien Asylum
ReplyDeleteMy understanding at this point where I am in the game, the characters in the game are all fictional, even the facilities are fictional, but set in real world locations. But if you noticed, Listening Friends now has a FB page and that, I believe is where we will start gaining insight into the facility. Hope my ramblimg helps
ReplyDeleteIt does and I'm already there on that page. But what about 1811 highway killer. That was real. The mudslide were real. I'm getting myself confused. But if we can not investigate the facility or the town how are we to get any closer to learning who our killer is.
ReplyDeleteBTW. See you sunday!!!!😁
ReplyDeleteHi, love the blog! It's very to the point without giving anything away. I am only on box 2 and was wondering if you could either describe or post a picture of the "1618" on the back of JWJ's letter?? I'm curious because I have seen a picture (can't seem to find it again) where the numbers were the same but the design of them was different. The picture that I saw seemed to have the numbers almost finger-painted onto the page and my numbers definitely look like they were made using a stamp. Also, I have read that some people have 1618 on the back of the poem and I found my 1618s on the bqck of the JWJ's letter.
ReplyDeleteIf you will message me on FB or through my Hack The Hunt FB page, I can send you the picture I took. When you shine the blacklight, the "1618" shows up in sort of a block lettering format.
DeleteDid anyone else have a perfect dot right above the "J" in JWJ, that is only visible under the black light? I realize I am new here and I have been reading through comparing notes.
DeleteGoing to throw this out there. I googled the mother's name and this came up: http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/nanny-aoife-phelan-murder-accused-3583996
ReplyDeleteWhile there is no way this could be Lloyd's mother (she was 30 in 2012) there is a striking similarity here: her name is exactly the same and she told her murderer she was pregnant with his child. The autopsy confirmed she had never been pregnant.
How popular is the name Aoife? I ask because there is a woman who works for LFoA. She is listed on their FB page with a small biography. Thoughts?
Delete‘Eve’ “Eva”. Same thing.
DeleteSweet...and creepy. Yes those are exactly the type of things that keep HAK fun and somewhere between fact and fiction. I'm never sure if I'm playing in the real world or only with one foot in!
ReplyDeleteOK, random comment...That file on L. McGowan was not listed on inspector's inventory sheet...
ReplyDeleteThere is also a staff member on the LFOA facebook page with the name AOIFE
ReplyDeleteLilian is a redhead in the autopsy and Aoife O'Sullivan is a redhead in the photo. Coincidence? Still on Episode 2, what is the date under her name on the autopsy? If September 27, 1967 is her admission date, then she's only there one day before she's killed. That goes with the theory that she's forced to be there with the intention of killing her. Does anyone think the use of the word "scungy" is significant in the letter in Episode 3. That's Australian slang.
ReplyDeleteI believe September 27 is simply the day of the murder.
DeleteIam struggling with where to place the holes on the letter from the second box , i have tried tons and tons of combonations
ReplyDeleteAnyone know where to put it??
DeleteAlso, I am thinking that the photo of the dragon was NOT edited for violence because there are gouging claws left unhidden. It’s a key for something.
ReplyDeleteJust sot of perusing my notes from Box 1 and 2, doing a bit of research, and found this to be interesting. In an article regarding the sinkhole, I googled some of the mentioned names. A man by the name of Thomas Lemmon, retired, lived on 600 block of Peyson St. Baltimore had been sitting in his Cadillac listening to his radio and house collapsed on him and crushed him. Coincidence???
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone have any thoughts about how, in the JWJ friend letter, every instance of a typed "f" followed by a typed "i" appears to have a registration or printing error - the "i" there is without kerfs, and too close to the "f". Examples include "find" and "file"and another (it might be "beneficial" - the box is at my GF's house...). Anyway, all other letters that follow an "f" are properly shaped and spaced, and all other "i"s appear properly shaped and spaced. I think this was done deliberately, but I don't know how one would achieve this on a manual typewriter, and I don't know what it could possibly suggest. The closest I've come is a speculation regarding the phrase "open eyes" (open "i"s...??) in the JWJ poem, like maybe they're indications of where to place the vellum etching's ovals. By the way, there are no "fi" combinations in the poem.
ReplyDeleteMore generally - I believe that if Lillian had been pregnant when she was killed, the autopsy would have noted that fact, instead of just her increased hormone levels. But, I think the stab wounds (13 to the abdomen) suggest that the murderer's motive might have been a BELIEF that she was pregnant, possibly the believed result of a series of rapes he had committed. We know that she had anterograde amnesia, which is often caused by traumatic experiences and which prevents the formation of new memories - she couldn't have identified her rapist - but her killer must not have understood that. Any professional familiar with her case would have.
OTOH... Her autopsy took 11 hours (I'm pretty sure..) which is a very long time according to my nurse fiance... it did not mention pregnancy by name, and afterwards, I believe her body was dumped in a river. All that looks like a coverup by the L.F.O'Brien Asylum, and the 30 years of Thorazine and solitary for McGowan, and the efforts to sell him the story that he killed her, are part of that coverup. What are LFOAsylum's motives here? They wouldn't cover up a murder-by-a-patient by framing another patient - there's no gain there. They wouldn't cover up a murder by a custodian or maintenance man or even an orderly - low-skill service workers are too easy to replace, just turn the murderer over to the authorities and hire a replacement. So this line of thinking points to a doctor or an executive as the rapist/murderer... which contradicts my point above where the doctors would already know that she couldn't identify her rapist, so a doctor/rapist would know he didn't need to become a murderer... presumably, if the rapist is a doctor, he would have targeted her BECAUSE he knew she wouldn't be able to ID him. And the believed pregnancy wouldn't have scared him that much - DNA paternity testing was in its infancy, not widely used or legally accepted in 1967. Besides, the kind of facility that would dump a body in the river after performing an autopsy, is the kind of facility that would perform involuntary abortions on mental patients and then apply electroconvulsive therapy until they couldn't remember ever having been pregnant. So, even though illegal "out in the world", abortion was certainly available to a rapist asylum doctor seeking to conceal evidence of his crimes. Sooo... the scenario that makes the most sense from a "facility's coverup motivation" perspective, makes the least sense from a "killer's motivation" perspective.